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Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain
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Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 21.Jul.2008 4:39:31 PM
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EustaceLufgren
Posts: 13
Joined: 23.Apr.2008
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Hi folks,
Allow me to try and explain our situation. We have a SBS 2003 box that has been running most of our apps since 2005, although we have steadily been moving more and more applications off onto new alternate servers. After some troubles with Exchange 2003 on the domain controller (SBS 2003) I decided that it would be best to get Exchange onto another machine if possible, for a variety of reasons. Disk space is one, reliability (and prevention of incompatibilities with other services) is another. Probably one of the biggest ones is that it would cost us little to nothing to do so; we have a really fast, well spec'ed x64 server that is sitting idle, with no good use after the 64-bit OS didn't work for our SQL install. We also have a license for Exchange 2007, although a few more CALs would have to be purchased. I want to make good use of that hardware, and since Exchange 2007 requires x64, its a match made in heaven!
Now, I know Exchange 2007 on a domain with a SBS2003 domain controller is a bit of a problem. I don't want to change that server, other than removing its role as the Exchange server, eventually. But I found these excellent articles by Chris Dalby:
http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/Installing-Exchange-2007-Small-Business-Server-2003-domain-Part1.html
http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/Installing-Exchange-2007-Small-Business-Server-2003-domain-Part2.html
I'm a bit stuck at this point, because there are some parts of the article I don't fully understand. I have promoted the x64 box to be an additional/backup DC. I have also configured it to be a global catalog server as well. On that first article, I have NOT transferred the schema master to the x64 server, though. From the sound of that, that would "break" something on the SBS 2003 server. I'm not ready to go live yet, I was just hoping I could get the machine installed and get it close to the point where we could take it live, with as minimal uncertainty as possible.
The author of the article writes from a perspective where it seems more like a test environment, where downtime and loss of data are not major considerations. In a test environment this is true, I am just concerned there may be substantial dangers or unmentioned issues I could run into. I know this is a long shot, since who really wants to install dedicated Exchange 2k7 on a SBS domain, but has anybody done something like this, or anyone have any further advice on how to accomplish it?
Many thanks!
Edited to add: Also a general AD question...changing the schema master to the new box...is this in fact not a problem? I mean, will everything (particularly AD and Exchange on the SBS) continue to run fine if I do change the schema master?
< Message edited by EustaceLufgren -- 21.Jul.2008 4:45:52 PM >
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 21.Jul.2008 4:48:43 PM
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mark@mvps.org
Posts: 3762
Joined: 9.Jun.2004
From: Philadelphia PA
Status: online
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You have read and understood the articles well enough. To be honest I wouldn't do it. I would either wait until the new SBS (new name, new SKUs and such) comes out or I would follow the article as written.
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 21.Jul.2008 5:07:21 PM
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EustaceLufgren
Posts: 13
Joined: 23.Apr.2008
Status: offline
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Well, perhaps my bravery exceeds my brains but after some further reading, I changed the Schema master to the x64 DC, and I changed the Exchange mode to Native, which I should have done earlier anyway.
So it looks like I'm ready to install. My question is now, will installing Exchange 2007 now make it assert control over our Exchange 2003 installation? Again, not ready to go live. Thoughts? Thanks!
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 21.Jul.2008 5:24:05 PM
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mark@mvps.org
Posts: 3762
Joined: 9.Jun.2004
From: Philadelphia PA
Status: online
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Assert Control?
Not entirely sure what you mean but I can say that unless you conciously make the decision to drive email out of or into the 2007 box it will site there as idle as a very idle thing.
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 22.Jul.2008 9:16:59 AM
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EustaceLufgren
Posts: 13
Joined: 23.Apr.2008
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That's precisely what I meant, sorry for the very non-technical descriptor. I was concerned that installing Exchange 2007 would make emails on the domain start shooting over to that box instead of our active 2003 installation. If it will sit idle and "behave itself" it would be nice to install it, then.
Edit: Reread your reply and wanted to clarify; you said "it" will sit idle, I assume you were talking of the Exchange 2007 box, newly installed, or were you talking about the 2003 box, the SBS machine that is the active install? If the former, I can go ahead and install...if the latter, then not.
< Message edited by EustaceLufgren -- 22.Jul.2008 9:27:48 AM >
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 22.Jul.2008 1:34:12 PM
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Sembee
Posts: 3503
Joined: 17.Jan.2008
From: Somewhere near London, UK
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For SBS to function normally it must hold ALL of the FSMO roles, that includes Schema master. If your server hasn't started complaining it soon will and then it will shutdown.
Personally I would have downgraded to Exchange 2003 and sat on that version while you had SBS 2003. That would allow you to continue to use all of the functionality of SBS, including remote web workplace.
Simon.
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Simon Butler,
Exchange MVP
Blog: http://www.sembee.co.uk/
Web: http://www.amset.info/
In the UK? Hire me: http://www.amset.co.uk/
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 22.Jul.2008 1:59:22 PM
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mark@mvps.org
Posts: 3762
Joined: 9.Jun.2004
From: Philadelphia PA
Status: online
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Yeah, there's practically no business reason and no real technical reason to put 2007 into an SBS environment. If you want to take that step the best thing to do is to get out of the SBS world.
Why would you want the possibility for five stores (in 2007 standard) that can host thousands of users when you only have capabilities for 100 users in the SBS forest?
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 22.Jul.2008 5:19:50 PM
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EustaceLufgren
Posts: 13
Joined: 23.Apr.2008
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My reasoning is as follows:
* Disk Space - the new server is dedicated to Exchange, and will have a substantially larger RAID array to house only mail...so I can relieve a somewhat more stringent mailbox size limit.
* Performance/Reliability - While since our user count (<30) is so low that performance is not much of a consideration, the current SBS box is a bit of a tangled rats nest of services and applications; for instance, we've been using POP3 connectors to import all our mail from an external server for 3 years, which I know is a poor implementation, but any major changes to the server run the risk of breaking something unrelated, since there are a number of vital services running on that machine. Moving Exchange onto a new, clean, and dedicated machine would make doing Exchange "the right way" a bit easier.
Lastly, while this isn't a reason FOR it, the upgrade would cost us very little. Hardware is already in place and the server license is owned. So there is a bit less of a monetary reason against this.
I do see your point on getting out of SBS entirely. I am still interested in the Transition Pack, just to get out of Small Business Server world, so I can have a cleaner environment...SQL 2005 on one box (already done), Exchange 2007 on another, Terminal Server on another, some other apps on another, and then on the ex-SBS box, a simple domain controller, DHCP, DNS, AD, and file server. Nice and simple.
I know the transition pack wouldn't give me Exchange 2007 licenses, but it might still be worth sacrificing those.
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 22.Jul.2008 5:35:12 PM
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mark@mvps.org
Posts: 3762
Joined: 9.Jun.2004
From: Philadelphia PA
Status: online
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Yes, transition pack your way out of SBS, get yourself into a "normal" (bad word but it kinda works in this context) Windows AD environment and introduce the 2007 server as a normal member server rather than a DC.
I always tell customers that it makes no sense to leap ahead with one bit of technology when your foundation (infrastructure) is a version or two back. Get the infra right and save youself headaches later.
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 23.Jul.2008 9:02:00 AM
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EustaceLufgren
Posts: 13
Joined: 23.Apr.2008
Status: offline
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Thank you sir, glad to have that idea confirmed. Do you think my unactivated Exchange 2k7 install can be left alone, or will that need to be scrapped and redone?
Also, if we do the Transition pack, we'll get a big pack of Exchange 2003 CALs. Are there cheaper upgrade CALs that can convert those to 2007 CALs, or would we just buy the new 2007 CALs and not use the 2003 CALs?
Appreciating the assistance very much.
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 23.Jul.2008 9:15:55 AM
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mark@mvps.org
Posts: 3762
Joined: 9.Jun.2004
From: Philadelphia PA
Status: online
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Leave it as it is. You'll probably need it there when you convert from SBS to "Man-size Windows". I suspect you'll end up generating problems if you tried to take it out.
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 23.Jul.2008 2:48:13 PM
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Sembee
Posts: 3503
Joined: 17.Jan.2008
From: Somewhere near London, UK
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There are no upgrade options for Exchange.
Therefore you need to take that in to account. Look at the costs of Windows CALs and whatever else you want to use (SQL) and see if it is still cheaper to buy the transition pack, which will give you something that you don't need.
Simon.
_____________________________
Simon Butler,
Exchange MVP
Blog: http://www.sembee.co.uk/
Web: http://www.amset.info/
In the UK? Hire me: http://www.amset.co.uk/
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 23.Jul.2008 4:20:30 PM
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EustaceLufgren
Posts: 13
Joined: 23.Apr.2008
Status: offline
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Simon, the Transition Pack with sufficient CALs runs about $1400, and the Exchange 2007 CALs (outside of the 10 we already own) appear to be in the $850 range, in total. SQL CALs are not an issue; we already purchased and own unique SQL 2005 CALs for our independent SQL server, and we are no longer using the SQL cals that came with our SBS install.
If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting possibly not doing the Transition Pack and simply purchasing Server 2003 licenses and CALs. We also own a server license (w/10 CALs) for Server 2003, so purchasing the remaining 15 CALs would cost a minimal $400. Buying the Exchange licenses would still be necessary, as would Sharepoint CALs, although I can't find pricing on that right now.
But if the latter was still a significant savings, my question would be, would the server have to be completely rebuilt? That would be a bit of a disqualifier for us. That server is like a bit of a rats nest...if the Transition Pack can magically "flip a switch" and leave its data and system state (as well as AD) basically the same, that might be worth a few extra hundred.
But I gather from both of your tones, this whole exercise is not something highly recommended. I take it you would both advocate leaving the SBS box, and continuing on with its Ex 2003 install?
(bound and determined to find something useful for that x64 box to do!  )
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RE: Exchange 2007 on a SBS2003 domain - 23.Jul.2008 4:51:56 PM
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mark@mvps.org
Posts: 3762
Joined: 9.Jun.2004
From: Philadelphia PA
Status: online
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Here's what I don't understand. You have got server licenses and CALs seemingly coming out of your proverbial ears. With practically zero real expenditure you could simply abandon SBS and leave it by the wayside. Why have we even been bothering with this conversation, really?
Stick VMware server on a spare bit of tin and make it a new DC in the SBS forest. Move all the roles to that and get rid of the SBS box from the face of the earth. The SBS help forums have step by step guides there.
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Mark Arnold (Exchange MVP)
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