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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 4.Sep.2006 4:11:21 AM
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choppol
Posts: 387
Joined: 9.Feb.2003
From: sydney
Status: offline
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I guess everyone shouldn't be surprise when near all version of MS apps/os comes up that they move things around or exchange the GUI just to look different such like toyota cars.
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 30.Nov.2006 10:58:05 AM
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DrShinder
Posts: 41
Joined: 25.Jul.2006
Status: offline
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I'm wondering if they'll at least put some functionality improvements in the RTM. Do they really think that people are happy to learn a typo ridden CLI and upgrade to a move complex system than Exchange 2003? It'll be interesting to see what the upgrade progress will be.
Tom
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 10.Dec.2006 5:45:48 AM
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Henrik Walther
Posts: 6827
Joined: 21.Nov.2002
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: online
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Because Exchange 2007 has been developed using managed code it's actually a relatively simple task to add extra functionality to the GUI, so expect this to happen, if sufficient customer feedback exists for a particular feature.
_____________________________
HTH
Henrik Walther
Exchange MVP & MCM: Exchange 2007
MCITP: Exchange 2007, MCITP: Windows Server 2008, MCSE: M+S
Order my Exchange Server 2007 Book!
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 2.Jan.2007 11:07:24 AM
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DrShinder
Posts: 41
Joined: 25.Jul.2006
Status: offline
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Has anyone found any third parties yet that have made enhancements to the Exchanage UI so that you can fully support all mail protocols and configure machine and user certificate settings, like you used to be able to do with Exchange 2003?
Thanks!
Tom
_____________________________
Protect Your Exchange Servers with ISA Firewalls!
www.isaserver.org
http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 3.Jan.2007 3:52:28 PM
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kikistan
Posts: 24
Joined: 19.Dec.2004
From: France
Status: offline
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I do agree globally and especially for IMAP ..... i'm amazed of the lack of support for this (and POP too BTW)
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 9.Jan.2007 3:08:02 PM
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RobertSeattle
Posts: 10
Joined: 9.Jan.2007
Status: offline
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I think both Exchange 2007 and Office 2007 violate one of the unwritten rules of software UI - don't make experienced, loyal users in prior versions of a product feel like total incompetents the first time they try the new product.
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 15.Jan.2007 9:25:44 PM
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Blackduke77
Posts: 7
Joined: 15.Jan.2007
Status: offline
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personally, I think Microsoft have done a great job with Exchange 2007, yes there a things missing in the product but lets not forget it has been re-written from the ground up and is now in a class of it's own. There is only a certain amount you can do within a time scale and you cannot rewrite a complete system and ship it with all the features that the previous system evolved to have.
This reminds me of when Exchange 2003 first came out, I seem to remember having the same conversation.
As for the GUI, it works for me, I am a GUI man and have found it hard learning EMS, however i am learning it, there are some great examples out there. and I know the MS will continue to add functionality to EMC. I just wish they would do certificate management first!!!
This Version of Exchange is going to be a learning curve for us all but I promise when it clicks in you will love it.
my two pennies worth
Robbie
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 20.Mar.2007 11:07:16 AM
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DrShinder
Posts: 41
Joined: 25.Jul.2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RobertSeattle
I think both Exchange 2007 and Office 2007 violate one of the unwritten rules of software UI - don't make experienced, loyal users in prior versions of a product feel like total incompetents the first time they try the new product.
Hi Robert,
Excellent point! I still have no idea how to configure POP3S and IMAP4S support. The UI is totally worthless when it comes to creating a secure configuration. You'd think with SD3+C they would have put a premium on security and make security configuration as simple as possible. Go figure.
Tom
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 21.Mar.2007 12:01:54 AM
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dloweqsc
Posts: 112
Joined: 13.Sep.2005
From: Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Status: offline
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There had to be a tremendous amount of pressure to release the product as it is today. Why did they do it? What was the rush? Was it holding up other platforms / applications?
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For a single, large organization, I can see the advantages of moving to 2007. Yea, I have to learn some 3 line long command lines to do simple things like set up a relay or turn on IMAP, but spending some time building scripts for day-to-day provisioning makes sense. Being able to pack more mailboxes on a 64 bit server also helps.
My company however manages a lot of small (less than 50) seat Exchange servers and the cost of supporting Ex2K7 is way too high for these companies.
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Small Business Server 2003R2 is Microsoft's most expensive product. Trying to do a migration, or, having some schumk try to set one up when he/she has no idea what Active Directory, DNS, let alone Exchange is makes cleaning up / upgrading SBS a very expensive product for small businesses. It's very easy to cost justify a full Win2K3 and Ex2K3 license for companies bigger than 20 people.
Imange what the new Small Business Server with Exchange 2007 will be like to support... I can't wait.
_____________________________
Darryl
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 21.Mar.2007 12:49:32 PM
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DrShinder
Posts: 41
Joined: 25.Jul.2006
Status: offline
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Hi Darryl,
Exactly. Can you image the "game boy" turned "consultant" setting up an Exchange 2007 box using God only knows command line arguments and having no idea if he typed the right thing in or used the right commands or made a typo? Then you get to make it an avocation to learn the Exchange command shell to try to troubleshoot these issues, which with Exchange 2003 were really simple affairs of looking at a few dialog boxes in the GUI?
Monad is great for the large enterprise admins and dedicated Exchange consultants, but it seems like they're not interested in the SMB. There are competing solutions that SMBs might use that are much easier to manage and support.
I really hope that 2007 SP1 brings the UI in line with what we had in Exchange 2003 SP2.
Tom
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 23.Mar.2007 11:22:18 PM
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Jim Locke
Posts: 21
Joined: 16.Mar.2006
Status: offline
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Here's my 2 cents: Exchange2k7 is brutal, the documentation for setting up an "Edge" is totally $#@$% (sorry about the language) I started a new complete and simple setup isa2k6 -> edge -> isa2k6 -> hub/etc (new AD and all) Everthing was pretty good at the start, sent email qwkly, Now for security: Install the edge, did the little cmdlets, oh! alas! nothing coming in. Oh well, lets format everything and start over. MS has to complete the docs in "CLEAR and PRECISE about when to do what on EXACTLY which server". And put everything that a cmdlet does in GUI.
Putting E2K7 on SBS would be a huge error since a few clicks of the mouse to setup SBS will be long gone.
Jim..
PS: Anyone know where one could find the proper instructions for an Edge Server, I have about 3 more weeks before I have to do the production install.
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 24.Mar.2007 12:18:32 PM
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DrShinder
Posts: 41
Joined: 25.Jul.2006
Status: offline
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Hi Jim,
I'm fortunate that I don't have to do Exchange 2007 installations and am in the position to recommend against them until Microsoft finishes the product by providing the missing User Interface elements and missing documentation. It's not my job as a paying customer to figure out how to make an unfinished product work.
Two weeks ago at the Worldwide MVP conference, we all begged the ISA dev team to not make the mistake the Exchange Team did -- we told them that the Exchange Team made their product less secure by making security hard -- ISA needs to make security stronger by making it easier to configure -- which means staying far, FAR away from crap-ass CLI obfuscatory configuration requirements.
Good luck on your upcoming deployment!
Tom
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 31.Mar.2007 1:32:01 PM
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DrShinder
Posts: 41
Joined: 25.Jul.2006
Status: offline
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Hi Happy,
Ha! That's thinking like a pix or Check Point admin :)
Tom
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 1.Apr.2007 5:24:51 PM
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Jim Locke
Posts: 21
Joined: 16.Mar.2006
Status: offline
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Tom,
Just to be fair to the Exchange Team, the ISA Team botched the job too. A little thing called SIP/TLS for using Live Comm 2005. Here was a new MS 2006 product that could not support a MS 2005 product without a 3rd party add-in. Why for likes of me didn't ms quickly write the same bridge and put it in the ISA Tool downloads? So all LCS2005 is good for is pure IM and at what licensing costs.
MS is missing something important here, all their various teams for various "Server Services Products" have to get together with the ISA team to make them work together with ALL the supposed features and not just 30% of the features. Also, they should at least have documents explaining what is to be done at the ISA level to accomplish just that, without compromising security or functionality of another product.
Jim..
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RE: Disappointed with Exchange 2007 - 1.Apr.2007 10:34:15 PM
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DrShinder
Posts: 41
Joined: 25.Jul.2006
Status: offline
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Hi Jim,
I can't argue with that. Also, they forgot multiple gateway support, one to one NAT, and many other things that have been DCRs for year. But they did get the GUI right for the features they do have :)
I agree with you, the other teams need to work more closely with the ISA team to get their stories and features straight. The good news is that I think you'll see much more of that with the next version.
Thansk!
Tom
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